Once again in Luke 23 the thief asks Jesus to remember him when his kingdom comes. Not forgive me, not baptism not anything more than simple faith and a ask to remember. And Jesus himself on the cross told him he will be in heaven

So you cannot nor have the authority to box salvation in water or in a building.

He did repent because he acknowledged his wrongdoing and recognised Christs divinity

Also saying he wasn’t baptised is again an argument from silence

You really are trying to lock god to your limitations aren't you

You’d have to assume the thief wasn’t in the area or nearby according to Matthew 3:5-6 to claim he was not baptised

Because for the simple fact the thief was Jewish so he wasn't baptized and two he didn't repent because they put Jesus in a cross in between him and another who taunted Jesus. It was the acknowledgement and faith the thief had of who Jesus was that brought him with Jesus

More assumptions lol

You assume every Jew went to John the Baptist?

I’m not assuming at all

No you did

If my clear reference to luke 23 is assumption

If all of Judaea and all around about was baptised by John, then there’s a good chance he was also baptised

And Jesus and his disciples baptised even more people than John did

He wouldn't be a thief

Not the point, point is he would have been already baptised

Yes because at the time Jesus was setting himself and his followers apart from the rest of the religious people to show his truth

No your point was he "was baptized" when in reality if he was he would have changed like those who was did

So once again you're putting god into your own construct and that gets you nowhere, I'm not arguing with a pharasee. That time will come soon

That’s not a great argument to make because Judas was also baptised

I’m not using my own interpretation if that’s what you are assuming

Judas also was consumed by greed his entire time he followed Jesus

Anyways I'm not arguing with you, it's gonna go in circles I don't have time to repeat myself 🫳👁️

But you said he would have changed if he was baptised

Understandable have a good day

If I may ask, can either of you show me in the laws of Moses or anywhere in the Old Testament where baptism was introduced or where John the Baptist came up with the idea of baptism. I remind you, his father Zachariah was a priest in the temple.

I’m sorry I don’t really understand. What are you talking about?

It's not in the old testament nor in the law of Moses

Only in the new testament.

Paul talks about how circumcision of the Old covenant was replaced by baptism of the new covenant

I’m not sure about how John the Baptist came up with baptism

But it wasn’t a totally new thing

I mean fulfilment not replace

Cleansing in water wasn't baptism though. And a lot of baptism was mainly a declaration of faith in Jesus. Some with water some without.

Never said cleansing in water is baptism

No I was just saying that it wasn't. Cause that the only time anything similar to water baptism is mentioned in the old testament is cleansing

Their baptism was called circumcision

I see that point

John the Baptist was before Saul’s conversion so it predates his writings. Also when John was calling on those to repent and be baptized is was accepted by the jews as the norm. Do you now why, and yes water was meant for cleansing, this is how the term living water came about.

uhhh circumcision did not serve the same purpose as baptism

circumcision was a blood promise between Abraham and god. so circumcision became a symbol of convenance

if circumcision was the same as baptism then catholics wouldn't be doing both

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