God loves us, and He is not cruel. And like I said, sexual orientation is not a choice; this should be evident to each of us in regards to our own sexual orientation and also in light of the extreme persecution gay people face across the world. No one would choose that kind of suffering over a much easier life as a straight person.
So the only option left is that homosexuality is not a sin. God loves us, and He has no law against love. Jesus said Himself that loving God and loving your neighbor is what sums up the law and the prophets. If your interpretation of the bible is not one of love; it is contrary to Jesus' interpretation of it.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
Homosexuality is not demonic, and again the book of Enoch is not the inspired word of God; there's a reason it's not included in the bible. You can't just call things demonic because it doesn't fit your worldview.
The amount of times people quote the verse about not leaning on your own understanding when discussing the bible is pretty funny. Everyone assumes the other person is doing that, and that they themselves are exempt from it. God gave us the ability to reason so we could learn more about Him and draw closer to Him, andeachother as children of God.
I raise these questions because I see a clear disconnect between what I've been told the bible says growing up and what is evident in the world around me. Gay people are capable of the same love as the rest of us. They are not possessed by demons, and conversion therapy is proven to not work. I'm sure there are a few "success stories", but most likely they are pretending or deceiving themselves so they can be accepted by their family and church again, as sad as it is.
Of course it's possible they're bisexual too, but I'm sure there are many many cases of Christians who pretend to be straight (while accusing and damning gay people at the same time) because they don't want to lose their friends and family.
1 Corinthians 6:9, again, the word homosexuality did not exist back then, so any bible that translates it as such is a mistranslation. They had no word to describe homosexuality as we know it, only words related to fornication, prostitution etc.. I sincerely hope you are not under the assumption that all gay people are fornicators.
interesting take, dolphin ๐
Not sure how Proverbs 5:3 is relevant to what we were talking about ๐ค
My sincerest hope, which I hope is shared by all Christians, is to follow God's ways as honestly and truthfully as we can. I believe if Jesus came again today and saw the way the world treats His children just because they're gay, the way He made them, He would be deeply saddened and upset by how far we as Christians have strayed from His message of love. We've fallen for the same trap as the Pharisees by valuing the laws over people, and missing the point of the laws in the process.
The point of all of it is love. Every book, every verse, if your interpretation leads you away from love, or worse, against love, then I believe you are deeply mistaken.
And even if you still think homosexuality is a sin, it shouldn't change the way you treat them. We are here to share the good news of Jesus' love. God will convict the hearts of those who seek Him, not you. All you will do is turn people away from God, like those people who hold hateful signs. They are doing the opposite of what God asked us to do, and they will have to answer for it.
That's referring to the truth that Jesus was the messiah and died for us. No one here is arguing that. And look at Jesus' actions, who did He spend time with? How did He treat them? He loved the weak, the sick, the outcasts of society. He listened to them and ate with them. He pointed them to His father and blessed them.
The last will be first and the first will be last. Who is being treated as last today? That's where God is looking, and waiting to see how we treat them. โAnd the King will answer them, โTruly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.โโ
โญโญMatthewโฌ โญ25โฌ:โญ40 ESV
Again, homosexual is a mistranslation as they had no word for what we refer to as homosexual. The only way that your belief that homosexuality is a sin works is if you also believe that sexual orientation is a choice. Otherwise you're left with a cruel God who punishes His children for being who He made them.
I do not believe it is a choice as that is what I've heard from 99% or gay people I've heard speak about it (with the exception likely being pretenders who want to be accepted by their families again, or even to avoid being murdered by their government, like I said before). Also, I don't believe I could change my orientation if I wanted to, so why would I believe that about others?
But you have to believe that they can change something so fundamental about themselves in order for your belief to work. That's why you insist on it, despite the evidence to the contrary. We have to see the world and people as they are if we want to apply God's laws correctly, and that means not disregarding hundreds of millions of gay people as liars when they say they can't choose to be straight.
That's what I believe, but you're free to see the world and your bt
Brothers and sisters in Christ as you see fit. I choose to believe them and support their love, as long as it is kind, selfless, humble, and all the other things love should be.
That is what I've done. The words of man have told me my whole life that gay people are an abomination. The things I've heard said about them by people who claim to be Christians made them seem like depraved, dangerous freaks. But as I grew up and thought about it myself, I realized they're just like the rest of us. They want to love and be loved.
Also you're proving my point. The only way your belief that homosexuality is a sin works is by believe texts that aren't God's word, and that homosexuality is either demonic possession or some genetic curse. The bible doesn't say those things; those are ideas you're using to make your preconceptions make sense.
You would rather discredit the words of hundreds of millions of gay people when they say their sexual orientation is not a choice, than take the time to listen to them and consider the possibility that maybe your view of the world and people is what's skewed. Can you atleast admit that if homosexuality is not a choice, then it cannot be a sin?
God's views on love have always been consistent. โBut the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.โ
โญโญGalatiansโฌ โญ5โฌ:โญ22โฌ-โญ23โฌ โญESV
