Between Christianity and Islam
The Christian idea of perfection in many things but one critical aspect which separates God from us is He is without sin
Why is there no Trinity in the Old Testament?
Well it’s not explicitly stated
no Christian will say it’s explicitly stated in the old testement
though all the prophesies do point to Christ and everything does point to Christ
and we know that the Holy Spirit actively works in our world
Where is the Trinity in the Old Testament?
>>> and we know that the Holy Spirit actively ...
But I said it's one entity.
Well the spirit is working all the time in it through changing and hardening hearts, and Jesus is prophecized throughout
So when you say Holy Spirit you mean Father and Son as well
>>> Well the spirit is working all the time in...
Is the Holy Spirit the Messiah?
Christ is but they are all three united in the triune God
if I point to your hand and ask: is this a hand? What will you say?
But how can three be one?
Can you just play along I have a line of reasoning I want to try out haha
if I point to your hand and ask: is this a hand? What will you say?
>>> if I point to your hand and ask: is this a...
Yes, it is
Yes, I’d say it’s a hand —but I’d also know that it’s part of a whole human being, not something separate from the person.
And if I then ask: is it also you? What will you say?
Ah you caught on fast to it haha
Are you asking this to draw a comparison? I’m open to hearing your point just want to understand where you're going with it.
By the way issue with trying to explain the trinity with any metaphors is you will end up committing some heresy haha
>>> Ah you caught on fast to it haha
I understood before you told me.
Yes I was going to basicmy try and reason how something can be viewed as separate and can be taken on its own and doing its own actions but still be part of one entity
Haha fair enough, I’ve heard that before like every metaphor ends up being either modalism, partialism, or something else. That alone shows how complex and mysterious the concept is. From my side, I guess I just find it hard to believe in something so central to faith if it can’t be clearly understood or explained without falling into contradictions.
I get where you're going like trying to show how something can function distinctly but still belong to a unified whole. But if we apply that idea to God, the issue is that God, by definition, is indivisible and beyond composition. If something acts independently, with a separate will or knowledge — isn’t that more of a separate being rather than part of a single, undivided God?
I mean any Christian’s who claims the trinity is simple is basicly claiming to be so much wiser in theology then all the early church fathers who knew the disciples and were most capable to answer it and they did but through no simple debates and writings haha
In Islam, one of the core beliefs is that God is absolutely One not just in number, but in essence. Nothing is equal to Him, nothing shares His nature. That clarity is what I find deeply convincing.
I would agree and there was an early debate in the church about Christ being born and correctly it was argued that while being born, Christ is eternal and has always existed
I can see how that aspect there could maybe be convincing but I also might say that should we really expect something as great and infinite and incredible as God to be more simple then a chair from IKEA?
"I see so the idea is that Christ is eternal in his divine nature, but took on a human form at a point in time. But I still find that hard to grasp logically. If someone is eternal, how can they be 'born'? Doesn’t being born imply a beginning? And if the human nature was born but the divine nature is eternal, are we still talking about one person, or two distinct natures that somehow coexist without mixing or separating?
In Islam, we avoid that tension completely we believe Jesus (peace be upon him) was born miraculously without a father, but he was a servant and prophet of God, not God Himself. That makes his message easier to understand and keeps the distinction between Creator and creation very clear.
Regarding the natures I can promise you there is an answer to that question, the answer I will admit I do not know yet(need to read more).
I really respect your honesty it’s refreshing to have a conversation where someone admits they’re still learning instead of pretending to have all the answers. I think that’s how real growth happens. Personally, what drew me to Islam is that it offers very clear answers about who God is always One, without parts or dual natures, and never born or dying. But I’m always open to hearing more once you've had the chance to explore that topic deeper.
I mean on that it’s about what do you trust in giving an account of what Jesus said and did. (I need to go to bed very soon so let’s maybe not open that can of beans right now)
Totally fair, I get that it's definitely a big can of beans to open before bed haha. I appreciate the convo a lot, and I respect how you're thinking things through with sincerity. Sleep well, and whenever you're up for it again, I'd love to continue the discussion.
I did read the Quran before and while it’s what drew me away from Islam, I can’t deny it is so much more clear and straight forward then the Bible. The gospels have Jesus telling little riddles about a mustard seed and in the Quran it’s just giving it to you straightforward(usually)
I really appreciate your honesty it's rare to hear someone speak so openly about their journey. I get that the clarity of the Qur’an stands out, and I actually think that’s one of its strongest signs. It speaks directly to the heart and mind, without needing layers of interpretation. I’d honestly be curious to know: what part of the Qur’an made you feel distant from Islam? Maybe we can explore it together sometime.
I mean I can summarize for now my hold up was this: For Islam to be true the Quran must come directly(word for word) from God. And at multiple parts I was just left thinking this can not possibly be coming from God. I definitely can talk more about this and get your response to it later, it’s been a while since r I read the quran(translation) so I will want to do a bit of a refresh in the points that stuck out to me and pushed me away
That is an interesting draw for you because for me it’s a bit of the opposite. For me the complexity and mystery of faith being drawn out and debated to get to an understanding of it despite the terrible persecution the early church fathers were under is something that always gets me excited to read
That's completely fair, and I really respect that you're taking the time to think things through for yourself rather than just following blindly. I totally understand that if someone’s going to believe the Qur’an is from God, it has to hold up to that standard. When you're ready to share what parts made you feel that way, I'd genuinely love to hear them not to argue, but to understand how you saw it, and maybe offer a different perspective if you're open to it.
But I did it in a holy book and found strange things.
